Help Me Make A Decision

[mcasner]

Heres a question for the professionals. I am thinking of going to culinary school-44yr old- hairstylist for 20 years. AIU in Atlanta will cost about 20 thousand a year for 2-4 years. Been cooking since I was 5- always get great reviews from friends and family on my desserts. Entered exhibits in the state fair over the last few years- won many ribbons. Is the cost worth it? Is the pay worth it? Been told average salary is around 30 thousand. Eventually want to own my own small bakery.Looking to do that for the next 20 years! Comments? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[mark1]

Good news-bad news...if you have a 'dream' that won't go away and that you want to become reality, go for it.
Am not a pro, but have been around here long enough to anticipate what I think a lot of them will tell you...don't give up your day job.

[lebelage]

IMO you'd be better off keeping your day job while working part time with a well respected pastry chef and taking business and accounting classes.

The tuition you save will go towards your start up costs.

If you were younger (no offense) I'd recommend school maybe... but by the time you graduate, financially recover from the loans....

See where I'm heading with this?

[Cary]

I had the same dream that wouldn't go away. Since I was very young, i've wanted to be a chef/professional cook - and I'm almost 43.

i'm living my dream right now. I'm enrolled in a Culinary Apprenticeship program, and for the last year, working in professional kitchens. I'm just about ready to complete the bookwork part of it, and I'm accruing my practical hours. i'm anxiously (- read, scared to death ) of my practical exam coming up in April!!!!)

Oh, there's lots more to the dream, but i'm finally taking the very first steps - and couldn't be happier!!!

Oh, yeah.... the money's about $5.00 an hour less than I'm used to making (was a medical billing secretary for almost 22 years), the hours are not always convenient (ha!), I'm working at 3 different places to make up the hours that I need (which is still not close to the salary that I was making before) and I come home smelling like sauce and flour and whatever the special of the day was.......

However - my worst day cooking since embarking on this dream has BY FAR beaten my best day sitting behind a desk, hands down.

Those that have been doing this since a young age, I'm finding, don't understand my passion. Maybe it has worn off on them over the years - but this is all completely new to me. And since I've been wanting this for so long - well, it's as sweet as I thought it would be.

Viva la dream!

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

Cary in Ohio

(your milage may vary, and results may not be typical)

[mcasner]

I thank you all for the posts. However, having been in the hair business 20 years,(current day job) I can understand burnout and low pay( making 22,000 yearly sux!)I have been doing a lot of reading of people ages 40-59 quitting their fields, and doing something that they love. I have a partner who is very supportive-financially and otherwise. My dream of a very small business would take me through the next 20 years, whereever that business may be located at. but if it is not financially feasible, then I want to know! Recovery from student loans could me a nightmare too. Do "pros" in the industry teach enoughto their employees to be able to do this career without school?

[bear]

Ok for what its worth,Lebelage & Mark got it right if I may be so bold,I dont know how it works in the states but here for now at least we do take people who can do,cos the NVQ system that is the current thing(national vocational qualification) or (not very qualified)as we chefs put it is just poo!!. Show prospective employers your certs from the fairs they cant argue with a winner out of a state full,do a service or two for free show em what you got.The pay isnt great but the satisfaction is immense.
go for it and I wish you well.Bear

[lebelage]

A good pro- yes.

A good mentor and some business classes are much more likely to get you what you want at this point than expensive schooling.

[bear]

listen to Lebelage you know it makes sense oh and th' ole bear.

[Flattop]

Pastry Apprenticeship is the way to go IMHO. You get paid(not much) to learn and you get way more hands on instead of forking out 30-50K. Added plus if you find out you hate the industry you can walk without loans hanging over your head. If I was to do it over I would have done an apprenticeship and save myself a load of cash and wouldn't be considering at a career change to pay off my student loans

[bear]

Cary,the enthusiasm wears off a bit but not much,those who cant understand yours probly have none left,it is entirely possible to become cynical in catering but those of us with a real love for what we do just keep on doin dat lovely ting ooh yeah,where else can you can you have so much fun and get paid for it,I dont know!!.
Dont worry about your exam I nearly shat a brick before my c&g 706/3 pastry exam (6 hours) hey I got credits and passes!! and here I am doing my thing and they think I'm some kind of magician.
good luck to you if it helps but I'm sure you wont need luck,
cheers m'dear,Bear.

[bear]

Yup p'renticeship a good way to go, 20 grand a year is still a lot of dosh even in dollars.

[SmokeyJoe]

I personally beleive if you have the drive you dont need any education, at least not in this feild. Its true you can learn a s3it lot of stuff at a culinary school, but you can learn it while your on the job, from all the other chefs who did go to school. Buisness on the other hand is a whole nuther fish. Take you some buisness classes if your planning on going that route. However everything else you can pick up as you go. If you got passion and half a brain your already half way there now you just gotta develope the chops, youll never get that after 20 years of school gotta be in thaT do or die scenario and learn how to survive give the people what they want, keep em interested.

[lobstergun1]

Yes, you are going to learn more from the pros in the industry than you are by going to school. You would be better off sending emails, or knocking on doors of places you would love to work. You're lucky because you have someone who supports you. Take advantage of that.
Tell the Chef at places you want to work that you're willing to work for free to get your foot in the door and learn, and that you will work hard and never miss a day. Don't expect a response at first, but keep trying. I used to send an email once a week with my resume attached to a place i wanted to stage. It took almost a year and a half, but they finally did respond. School is very expensive nowadays, and while I believe it's valuable, I don't think it's worth the price. I can tell you that a Chef wants to hire someone who wants to work and to learn and has a good attitude. What school they went to does not matter. Good luck.

[foodpump]

There are pros and cons for an apprenticeship, for working on the job, and for school.

For school, you have certified Chefs teaching. Depending on the school, you might have a harda** Chef pushing you, like an Army drill sargeant, getting you prepared for "the field". And if you're not lucky, you won't get a drill sargeant. Some schools may have excellent teachers but a lousy curriculum, some an excellent curriculum but lousy teachers, and finally some schools with excellent teachers AND curriculum.

For on the job training: You earn while you learn, yes... But WHAT do you learn? There's a lot of good places and a lot of bad places. I've personally had decent cooks quote me that the way they learned to poach an egg was to drop in boiling water, to make hollandaise was to add clarified butter to mayonnaise, making a cake "from scratch" using pre-mixes... These weren't bad, lazy, or sloppy cooks, they just didn't have the right teacher. To get a well rounded education, you'll have to work at quite a few places, with cooks (Chef's are usually too busy to show you anything..) knowing what they're doing. Easier said than done.

Apprenticeships... In Europe most countries have a very stodgy old system, it works like this:

Trained trainers training the trainees.

In order for the right, the privilage,(and the cheap labour cost...) you must first have to have had a succesfull apprenticehip yourself to train apprentices. This system provides some modicum of assurance that the apprentices are learning the RIGHT way of doing things. Further assurances are met when the apprentices go to school, where they are under tutelage of certified Chefs.

In N.America, apprenticeships are very vague. There is no border-to-border standard, some apprenticeships require a certain amount of hours and a certain amount of school, some require a Chef with formal Culinary education, some don't.

Final analysis? Knowledge you can get from books, the proper skills, techniques, hand actions, and economy of movement must be observed from professionals. Like anything else in life, it all depends on your surroundings. Strive hard to find the best places to learn in. Don't focus on the Chef, as he's usually to busy, but on the second in command and the cooks, these are the people you'll be working with.

[Derek Cooks]

I can't understand how anyone could make a decision like this without actually having some experience in the industry. How can you spend $20k @ year when you don't know that this life, and it IS a "life", is like?

Before ANYONE spends dime one on school, I strongly suggest that they get into an actual production kitchen. Beg, borrow, give yourself away if you have to, to get into the best kitchen you can find. Spend 3 or 4 months doing that. If you still think this is your calling - then you will know what to do.

Just as many successful restauranteurs have come out of the kitchen as have come out of school. In fact, out of school, you still don't know anything about the life, the business, etc.

Listen to the advice above. Find a great kitchen to work in, or two, take some business management classes, and "try before you buy."

FYI - at 51 I quit my previous life and went to culinary -after having worked a couple of years on the side in restos. For a variety of personal reasons, I eventually opted not to do my resto - but I'm still deeply involved in foodservice and LOVING it...