Chef School Indecision

[NYBKLYNChef]

I am requesting advice from a knowledgeable and non-biased individual. I am embarking on my culinary career and have several questions which i can not find definitive answers.

Questions are as follows:
1)I want to enter a culinary program that would teach me the culinary arts aspects as well as restaurant management (i want to eventually open my own restaurant). Looking for school suggestions etc.

2)What kind of esoteric questions should I ask the culinary institutions?

3)I am eyeing the CIA, Le Cordon Bleu in Arizona, Johnson & Whales, and The Art institute of Seattle. Do you have any recommendations?

4)I'm searching for a mentor as well to help answer question before and during my metriculation through school. Is there a specific place, website, etc where I may obtain such an individual.

5) How should i prepare my self before attending culinary school? What can I do to make the transition easy or smooth?

[thecooktoo]

First, if you want to be a food service manager, hotel manager, etc., then CIA and Johnson and Wales is your ticket. If you want to be a cook, a really well trained cook, well versed in French technique, then contact L'Academie de Cuisine in Gaithersburg, MD. Small school, small classes, 1 year program and one of the top 10 cooking schools in the US. When you get out you will know how to cook.

Jim

[iBcookin]

Welcome to C2C - you have access to chefs in the industry all across the world right here at your fingertips. None of them are shy about expressing their opinions. Take some time to read some of the older posts, especially in the culinary student network, you will find many opinions and recommendations from people who have been in your shoes and the responses from these wonderful people who are willing to share their expertise with you.

Are you presently working in the industry? To me, that is the first thing I recommend anyone considering culinary school. Work in the industry first and gain some experience. You may decide this is your passion and culinary school is a logical next step. Then again you may decide that it isn't really something you want to spend your lifetime doing. But better to find that out now, than after you have invested a considerable amount of money in an education.

Good luck with your search!

Linda

[BlakeA]

I am a little biased here, just so you know up front...

But, I LOVE the CIA!!!! It rocks up here. For what you are looking for in management classes, the CIA is probably your best bet. There are bachelor degree programs here for cullinary arts management and baking and pastry arts management.

Also there is a mentoring progrm available to students here where you can be put into contact with alumni or teachers...my mentor is an older chef that is credited with bringing creme brulee to america when he was the pastry chef of le cirque....dieter schorner...There are tons of CMCs on campus and big time people in the industry, the networking opprotunities are awesome here.

But again, I'm a little biased

[foodpump]

I get very nervous when I hear the words "Chef-School" because to the best of my knowledge there is no such school. There are however, cooking schools, which will teach the 14 methods of cooking, knife skills, kitchen organization, baking skills, etc. I wish to emphasize that upon graduation from such a school will not automatically make you a Chef, just a culinary school graduate.

Don't want to sound harsh or mean spirited, but I've talked to many graduates and told them their salary expectations were not very realistic, as their experience level didn't match the experience level needed for the job.

Now that we have that out of the way, take Linda's advice and get your hands dirty in a kitchen

[Flattop]

You said that way nicer than I was gonna Ed.

[Derek Cooks]

NYBKLYNChef - Welcome to the forums!

I, like you, was destined to become a restauranteur. I didn't want to be held hostage by my kitchen, so I went to learn how to hold my own there.

First, I started working in a resto. Maitre'd, bar tending, waiting tables. Worked my way into the kitchen. Prep, day/line cook.

That was a very necessary first step, because I learned a lot about what a production kitchen does. It is nothing, and I mean NOTHING like you will see on TV, dream it's like. So if you are not currently working in the industry, I can not urge you strongly enough to get in there BEFORE you spend dime one on school.

What a waste of time and money to go to culinary school and then discover you hate the life.

Next, you will know what school, where, etc. after you have the resto experience. Which is what I did. Culinary school gave me things that I don't think I ever would have gotten "on the line."

So I can not urge you strongly enough to go to school for the business/resto management side. If you build it they MAY come - you need to know how to manage all the biz aspects.

Good luck and all the best!

[ChefJune]

Derek, you said that very well.

There was an article in the New York Times a week or so ago about the problems of culinary school grads and paying back their very substantial loans on a line cook's pay. There was considerable encouragement for looking into the programs available at your local community college, or other municipally funded school as opposed to the profit-making corporations.

That, too, is something to be considered.

[iBcookin]

Amen, Derek and June. This professions strikes me as one of the few in which you can "try it on for size." You can be involved and working in the environment with minimum experience and see if it is something you truly want to dedicate your life BEFORE you spend anything on professional training. You get a feel for the long hours, demanding physical activity and limited pay. Those glam jobs are few and far between.

Having said that, if after taking the plunge into the kitchen environment and loving that adrenelin rush, then I would definitely pursue some formal education. Depending on what you were looking to get out of it, and how much you want to participate and work at the education, there are many options from the community colleges to the big boys.

If opening your own restaurant is your ultimate goal, then definitely work in several places before. You can get first hand experience in practices you like and don't like and those that you can incorporate into your own place. View each job as a learning experience and ask lots of questions. Take Derek's advice and work all the areas - it is the only way you are going to know how you would like to run your very own place. A degree in management isn't going to mean squat if you don't know how to stagger your seating reservations, how to schedule staff or whether the bartenders are ripping you off.

Good luck and keep us posted on your decision!

Linda

[kidbizkit]

Before you do any of the above, and lay out any amount of monies for tuitions etc. it may be reasonable to consider working in the industry for a while. If you're currently working in this business - good.

To understand restaurant management, take your time, work hard in every job in a restaurant. After you've put in many hours in each and every postion, re-think your thoughts of enlisting in a formal educational program. And the money that's involved for school costs.

Then, and only then, ask this forum the same question again.

Good Luck and keep us posted as to your progress!

KB

[nervous]

Hi,everybody. I'm new to this post and I wanna first say thanks for all your insights and sincere opinions.

I've been losing sleep lately over indecision struggle, and among them is the choice of French Culinary Institute and Institute of Culinary Education, both in NYC. Most prominent difference is that the ICE is over $10,000 cheaper. Let me just lay down my questions:
1.Is the FCI better at getting you jobs in the top restaurants in the NYC?
2.If they are, is it worth the $11,000 you paid? Couldn't you start at a 2nd tier restaurant and work your way up since all fresh graduates have to start from entry level anyway?
3.What is the most accurate estimate on the time that a graduate can go from a prep/line cook to a sous chef.
Actually I'm more curious on how long a graduate has to endure on a less than $25,xxx pay at a place like NYC before a pay raise?('cause that could be the bake/break reason for a lot of people)
4.Does going to either school affect question 3?
5.I read many advices about getting into the kitchen before going to the school. I agree that's the best move for a lot of people but I've done my share of peeling potatoes and onions and if I could have a chance at the line, I would definitely do that before deciding on school.
Would that be a possibity in NYC--let an inexperieced cook do the line?

I don't know if anybody's ever been to cooking school compared website but they have something called 'INSIDER'S GUIDE TO CULINARY EDUCATION' which consists of 14 pages and is quite an interesting read but I'm not sure how much of that is true...so I thought I'd get your opinions.
Sorry for the 8000 words essay, I just got so much on my mind I feel helpless. Hope I could gain some wisdom here...

[foodpump]

look, here's a hypothetical situation for you: Guy graduates from a highly reputable medical school with top marks, but has never operated on live patients before. Would you trust this guy to operate on you?
Does a Chef trust a new guy fresh out of school with no real experience? Trust him/her with the hard earned restaurant's reputation and his livlihood without first observing the new guy carefully, putting him through the paces?

School may or may not give you the tools to learn. Ultimatly the student will choose what and how he wants to learn, the school can only offer it, but it can't guarantee that upon graduating that you will be a competant cook. I repeat, cook, not Chef, O.K.? Any school that says you're a "chef" upon graduation is full of beans. And it doesn't matter WHAT kind of school, the name of the school doesn't have much of an impression on the Chef who's hiring. Maybe on the owner or HR dept, but not the Chef. Please, don't take my word for it, check around with some of the Chef's in your area.
The cruel facts are that the higher the reputation the school, the higher the tuition, and the deeper the student is in debt. Upon graduation the student must make "X" amount of $ to cover his debts, and usually his/her experience in the field can not warrant the high salary she/he so desperatly needs. Again, don't take my word for it, talk with some of the Chefs in your area. Experience is, in 9 times out of 10, the deciding factor on salaries in kitchens. A caveat: This rule is not transferable in politics, or Gov't jobs, O.K.?


Question #3 Time. Can you tell me what the average human being is like? Out of 100 people, will the average human have brown eyes or green, weigh 120 lbs or 90 or 200? Black hair, purple, or balding? Please stereotype the average human being right now, I really require that information...
Look, every kitchen is different. If the labour is steady and there's no sudden changes in staffing, nobody moves up untill someone else leaves.
But the real thing is the person himself. Make a good impression and you find favour, make a lousy impression and you don't. Again, school won't do diddly squat in this area, but what's between your ears will.

What most Chefs are looking for is 1) flexibilty, 2) open attitude, and most importantly, 3) the abilty to get along with everyone. Knowledge, skill, and speed don't make it in this top 3 list, because if you possess the the top 3 abilities the skill, speed, and knowledge will follow.

Salaries. Big issue. Salaries come not from the employer but from the customer, the source of all money in the hospitality biz. Remember this factoid, it's very important. Funny thing is, people are cheap. Guy wants to buy a Luxury car and can cough up the money, but will go out of his way to find the cheapest price and the cheapest dealer with the lowest commision to buy his luxury car. And so it is with restaurants.

Question #5 is a red flag. If you've done time peeling spuds, why didn't you have a chance at the line?

Hope this helps

[nervous]

Thank you for your vigorous response; I believe this is why students and student-to-bes paint their blues here...
But let me just get this straight, and this is with reference to Q1 & Q2; I could just as easily obtain a culinary diploma here in Dallas Texas where I reside for around $6,000, go to New York City and apply for a job at all the top restaurants there, and my chances will be as good as those graduates from FCI(in NYC) who paid $38,500? Or the graduates from CIA(in NYC) who paid over $41,000?
If that's true then screw it. I'm definite getting diploma
in Dallas.Saving of tuition..and rent!...but there has got to be a catch...!
About Q5, those spud peeling, dirty dishes deeds were all kind of off record deals so the potential employer could only take me for my word..

[DaCook]

I agree with Foodpump. I went the local college route, and was quite happy with what they taught me in 10 months. I then put my hours in and succeeded in getting my Red Seal last year. Even though I have that Red Seal, I still feel like I am just the dinner cook that is in charge. I borrowed less than $3000 to attend the 10 month, local government sponsored program. I lived in my home town and I am still working in my hometown. I am not making $40,000 a year, but hey, I am happy, love my employers (family ownered restaurant), love my job, and get to do pretty much what I want with the specials, as well as having input on the regular menu. I was making $40,000+ 15 years ago accounting, but felt nothing like the pleasure that I get from cooking. Definately check out what is available local first.

[AMerv]

I am requesting advice from a knowledgeable and non-biased individual. I am embarking on my culinary career and have several questions which i can not find definitive answers.

Questions are as follows:
1)I want to enter a culinary program that would teach me the culinary arts aspects as well as restaurant management (i want to eventually open my own restaurant). Looking for school suggestions etc.

2)What kind of esoteric questions should I ask the culinary institutions?

3)I am eyeing the CIA, Le Cordon Bleu in Arizona, Johnson & Whales, and The Art institute of Seattle. Do you have any recommendations?

4)I'm searching for a mentor as well to help answer question before and during my metriculation through school. Is there a specific place, website, etc where I may obtain such an individual.

5) How should i prepare my self before attending culinary school? What can I do to make the transition easy or smooth?

New to this forum site as well, however, not to the field.
Here are some answers and some questions for you.
FYI all this is IMO

1. From this question I gather the most important part of all this is that you would like to eventually open your own place. With that, what type of place(s) do you want to open?

2. Do your research and follow your feet.

3. I have recently applied to CIA because I feel it best suits me.

4. Networking comes in many forms.

5. You haven't stated your experience so I cant accuratly comment.