Speedy Kitchen

[Yazan]

My boss and I have recently gotten into a debate about pre-cooking food in preparation for rush times. He's heard of or seen a method in which meats are grilled then immersed in water, until an order comes in. He's also tried to experiment with different solutions. I had concerns with sanitation, and quality of the finished product. Is there a way to pre-cook or prepare for a lunch or dinner rush without comprimising the quality of the finished product?
Just to give a little background info, we serve grilled and charbroiled chicken, lamb and beef kebabs.
Your Input would be much appreciated,
Thank You

[thecooktoo]

He's probably talking about sous vide...cooking in very closely controlled warm water tanks for fairly long periods of time. All food is sealed in vacuum pack bags then heated in water bath.

Jim

[Blueicus]

I've recently been wondering about the sanitation issues involving sous vide. So if you want to cook a piece of meat to mid-rare in a water bath (let's say 60 C) then finish it off by searing it until it's brown on the outside, wouldn't it be dangerous to be heating that piece of meat at such a low temperature for such a long time? I understand using sous vide for long slow high temperature cooking purposes, but I was wondering if it was dangerous to cook a piece of beef tenderloin (or lamb loin, etc.) in such a way (since I have heard of them being cooking in such a way).

[cheflayne]

What type of chicken are you doing? Is it quarters? Is it boneless? How about the lamb? What is it?

[Yazan]

The Chicken and Lamb, are boneless kebab cubes. I've heard of that method (sous vide), but unfortunately thats not the case. The cost to implement that, and space are not available. Is it possible to steep (at least the chicken) in hot water under low heat(or water bath), in a dilute marinade, and then season (oil based flavors) on the grill/charbroiler?. Would the texture of the meat be satisfactory, better? I would love to hear from someone who has actually tried something similiar; in fact any comments would be much appreciated

[lebelage]

Depending on what exactly you mean by "low heat/or water bath" this could be a big food safety issue.

Basically any temperature not high enough to kill bacteria is the temperature they multiply at.

[SmokeyJoe]

The key is to hold it between 140-160 any higher and the meat will overcook, if you keep it between those temps then bacteria isnt a factor either. However theres really no way not to compromise the flavor of grilled meat that is soaking in liquid. Other wise jut make sure you got a tasty broth.

[Max_Xavier]

Is there a way to pre-cook or prepare for a lunch or dinner rush without comprimising the quality of the finished product?

the short answer is NO when reffering to precooking grilled chix brsts, etc and storing in a broth or water bath till ready to serve. I feel you are talking about "sand bagging" for the rush. when held in the broth the meat will still get dry and is not quite the same as fresh cooked. although the difference in quality may be acceptable in certain circumstances.

alot of grill stations in corporate dining facilities will pre-cook burgers and chicken breasts prior to the lunch rush and store in a waterbath in order to keep the line flowing. it works, but, the flavor and texture is just not as good as when done to order. to me it is worth the wait.

brining the kebabs prior to cooking can help in holding in the juiciness while holding on the line when you need to sand bag. have you considered this?

[ChezLeRecherche]

The key is to hold it between 140-160 ...if you keep it between those temps then bacteria isnt a factor either.

I don't think it's quit that simple. FIRST, you need to make sure the whole thing is sterile AND above 140ºF. Then you need to make sure there are no "cool" spots where the temperature may be 20 or 30 degrees less. This can easily happen at the surface or in the corners of an unstirred pan.

This walking much too close to the edge for my comfort.

[Max_Xavier]

and to add...

after cooking dont keep it more than 2 hours in the hot water or broth bath. Remember FATTOM or more so the Time and Temperature part of it.

[MStorandelli]

Personally, I wouldn't do it. I've seen it done, I've had it done to me (yes you can tell, or at least most people can... I hope.)
I have a cartoon on the deli of a hot dog vendor saying to a customer, "It's marinated in warm water for 6 hours".
From an engineering point of view, you need either fewer seats or a bigger grill or more help or all three.

[SmokeyJoe]

The key is to hold it between 140-160 ...if you keep it between those temps then bacteria isnt a factor either.

I don't think it's quit that simple.

Actually it is that simple, but thats only the guidelines, that IS the simple part. Of course making it happen is always the difficult part, but I cant elaborate on that as i dont know what equiptment you have there to work with? Thats up to you to do the figuring but those are the guidelines, and chezlerez is right maintaining those temps can be kind of tricky, it cant drop below 139 ever!!! Doyou have an alto sham or cres cor at your site? These tools are indespensable for proper food holding.

[SmokeyJoe]

This can easily happen at the surface or in the corners of an unstirred pan.

Again, they key here is to use smaller containers, dont dump it all into a 600 pan, its more difficult to control temp flux in bigger pans instead use multiple 4 inch 1/3 pans, keep them each covered and in an oven set at slightly lower than 200 (compensating for the open and closing of the door), remove one pan at a time as you need it. Its easier to control the heat flux in small(metal) pans.

[Yazan]

I must say, you have all been emmensely helpful. THANKS! , I'll still check the forum in case something comes to mind

[thecooktoo]

Following are two articles that are related to sous vide cooking. One promoting it and theother the response of a typical bureaucratic health department determined to control it.

A couple of years ago I did a dinner party and used a technique that I had never heard of before, with a recipe I picked up on line. I prepared pousins in a tablespoon of duck fat, in a quart ziplock bag with all the air possible pulled out of it, and poached it in water at a constant temp of 140 degrees. It was without a doubt the best chicken that I have ever tasted in my life...after removing it from the bag, we placed them under the broiler for just enough time to give them a very light toast color.

I was doing sous vide and had no idea what the process was called.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/09/nyregi...a-b&emc=rss

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/magazi...and&emc=rss