Advice for finding real, challenging BOH work?

[GernBlanston]

Evenin, folks. Just looking for a bit of advice. First, a brief background.

I'm in my 30s. I have about 11 years of restaurant experience, probably 80% of that being FOH. Some of that experience is a corporate eat-o-ramas, some at bar and grill, and some at what I call Tier 2 restaurants - not quite on the level of "fine dining", but not too far behind. I also have both restaurant and retail management experience.

I've recently gotten back into restaurants after a bit of a hiatus, and found that I'm not as well suited to FOH work as I used to be... A bit older, a bit more laid back, and frankly, a bit more cynical. I've also come to realize that I've become a full-fledged foodie over the last few years. I would love love LOVE to begin training under a real chef, with the thought of working my way up into those ranks - chef, sous, or at least, guy-who-runs-the-boh-and-lets-the-real-talent-work.

Concerns: I don't wanna be a line cook at a J.P. McPickleShitters just to gain "experience". I have a ton of restaurant experience, I'm smarter than most, I have a bit of natural talent and a good palate (in my most humble opinion), and I actually care about putting out a great experience - food and service. However, because of having been out of the industry for some time, I don't really have anyone to vouch for any of those claims.

Unfortunately, culinary school is out of the question. It is a financial non-starter, and there's not really anything I can do about that, at least for a few years. So that avenue is effectively closed.

Questions: Without a traditional culinary education, is my career path limited to corporate stores and line-cookery? (And please understand that I do not mean to knock line cooks - good ones are an amazing thing to behold and worth their weight in gold, or at least a good German Heffe). Is there any such thing as an "apprenticeship" for those without culinary educations?

An adjunct to that: Where would someone in my position tend to have better luck looking for an opportunity? My limited cooking experience would lead me to think that I'd learn more as a prep cook for a 3 or 4 star restaurant than I would as a kitchen manager for an Applebees, and as such, I may be better off really shooting for the stars, so to speak, and looking for a position at a place that I may consider "over my head"... Any thoughts along those lines?

Thanks for listening to me ramble, and I look forward to any insights y'all might have. In the meantime, I'm also going to post my resume on the site here and look at what sort of jobs are posted - that will likely give me a better idea of what people are looking for right off the bat as well.

Incidentally, I'm in the Atlanta... so if anyone knows of anything 'round here...

Thanks!
Gern

[bohica]

First off Gern, welcome to C2C. Hope you enjoy your stay.

Geez, in your 30's and already you are saying that working the FOH is hard on you?

There'll be a lot of points of contention here, but working the BOH is not any better. It is physically demanding and just as stressful.

I have to ask what makes you think that working at an Applebees would not be a challenge? Line cooking is a noble profession as you have mentioned. You abilities can only enhance the place you choose to work at.

As to answering your question I would suggest that you find a place that has a ACF certified executive chef in the Atlanta area, and go speak to that Chef. Tell him/her just what you told us. Be honest with yourself and with that Chef.

If you are what you say you are, any Chef worth their salt would love to have an employee like you.

At least it's aplace to start. Best of luck and again welcome to C2C.

[chefthomas]

The ACF offers many programs of formal training without school..My advice READ everything you can about classical food & your in Atl as well seek out a country club there are many and they are very geared torwards teaching and sourcing diff. product; also try and find Chef Kevin Walker I hear he is down that way, He could help you very talented man

[chefthomas]

AWWWWW,,, I like Applebees

[Derek Cooks]

Go to the very best hotel and country club kitchens you can find. Offer to start washing dishes, do anything, even if for free for a week or two. Once they see your ethic and desire, you'll be moving up.

And yes, find the ACF chapter in Atlanta. Go to meetings, network, ask them about apprenticing. They are there to help you. Atlanta ACF

[jayvader]

applebees like chilis, TGI, 99, etc is a herpies on our profession

as a selfe proclamied foodie you probably already know the best restaurants in the area, go apply there

you may want to attempt the level of restaurant as a FOH before you abandon it, lots of good money to be made in a high level restaurant as well as a not so demanding work load in those types of places.
they do not want to have their servers sweating while serving so you have enough employees around so you can remain a layed back foodie that is a great server

[GernBlanston]

Thanks for the advice so far. The ACF looks like a great resource, and I'll definitely do a bit of research into that avenue.

I've done a bit of reading on this particular forum and found similar questions (to the one I've asked here) and in many cases, people have suggested hotels as a great way to get more quality experience. Hotels may be the only area of the service industry I've never worked in, though, and am not really sure what I might be looking for. Would I be better served looking for a hotel with one or two quality restaurants on premises, or are we talking more along the lines of banquet / catering services? I'm truly ignorant about how food and hotels go together - any insights or thoughts there would be crazy helpful.

I'm not sure that working FOH is hard on me, exactly, despite my advanced age... it's just that I think I've become better suited to working BOH. I don't mind long hours and physical work... I do mind some of the work practices that I've seen creep into (particularly corporate) restaurants in the last 10 years. I'm a hell of a team player... but not so big on the ass-kissage anymore. Of course, many of my issues would have less bearing were I working at a higher quality restaurant as FOH - but I'm working on that as well.

Thanks again for those who have taken the time to share some wisdom.

Cheers.
Gern

[jayvader]

hotels are a beast that you must understand to find them enjoyable

i myself have no interst in serving 16000 people a day
there is something special about smaller places that alow the chef the freedom to work hands on in the kitchen when it gets busy
instead of sitting at his/her desk callin in more employees to cut tomatoes for 3 strait hours


but hotels do pay the best wages

[bohica]

You think "higher quality" places don't have their problems?

As for hotels, they can be a fountain of experience because many facets of foodservice exist between those walls, fast food, catering, banquets, baking, butchering, etc.... Please don't count them out as a valuable experience.


Quote: "applebees like chilis, TGI, 99, etc is a herpies on our profession."

Why might that be? The public perception of these types of places is askew. Down in the deep bowels of these corporate giants lie "corporate Chefs" who study, practice and finalize menu products to sell at the properties.

I believe that it is perhaps the quality of employee that these types of places have that is the fault, and not the
food. The food, if done correctly is done well. Nothing wrong with these types of places. They have their place.

The fact that these types of places don't have certified chefs and that they do not pay high enough wages to garner professional caring foodservice individuals is also a point. Perhaps that's what is at issue here and not that fact that these types of places are inherently bad or good.

[cheztom]

Gern - welcome to C2C.

I second the hotel experience and I might add that a local college or corporate conference center might be a good place as well. The wide variety of experience found in hotels also happens in these aforementioned venues as well.

I agree with Ross (Bohica) - the Applebies of the world have their place. My opinion is that these large chain fast casual places have brought a certain level of dining to this country not readily available in many areas. Ten years ago most folks didn't know what pesto was, or how to pronounce chipotle. Or knew what feta tasted like. Nowadays, if you asked ten people about these items - you would get the right answer from most, IMO. This growth in the public's culinary knowledge and education of the palate is due in large part to those faceless R & D Corporate chefs at your Bob Evans, your Applebies, your Friday's slowly plugging away and bringing better and better quality and more varied menu items to the table. yes, yes there are many other factors involved, but I was just pointing out that these places (that many of us abhor) have an important role to play.



So, about that offering to work for free as an unofficial apprenticeship kind of deal. How many of you have had anyone come into your place and offer to work just for the experience? I've had a few, but I turn them down. If I had a person in the kitchen working for free with no paper work, the HR people would rain a tsunami of sh!t down on my head. The lawyers would become unhinged in the face of the liability potential. I think you'd have better luck finding a mom and pop resto that would be willing to take the risk. And they'd likely still want you to sign a waiver drafted by their lawyer and notarized when you sign. No matter what kind of experience you say you have.

[Chamo]

Julia Child starts at age of 34 y/o, so you are not too far behind. All will depend on your potential and your willingness to do the right job!

Find some com. college or ROP trainning and get cheap but good education. Is always welcome...